AI can crank out code fast now. The part that's not speeding up is our ability to ship it safely. And if you don't have guardrails, you are basically just moving failures faster. Hey, I'm Brian. I work in DevOps and SRE, and I run Tellers Tech. Ship It Weekly is where I filter the noise and focus on what actually matters when you are the one running infrastructure and owning reliability.
Most weeks, it's a quick news recap. In between those, I do interview episodes with folks who are actually building and operating real systems. Today is one of those interviews. I'm joined by Mike Lady, a senior DevOps engineer and the creator behind Enterprise Vibe Code on YouTube.
Mike's deep in distributed systems, and we're talking about day two readiness, guardrails, and why that stuff matters even more now that AI can generate code fast. We get into what day two readiness means in plain English. The symptoms you see when teams ship without guardrails, what a real day -two audit looks like, and how Mike thinks about AI can write code, but it can't ship safely without gates.
We also talk about AI agents watching builds, branch protection, quality gates, and where the line is between AI -assisted development and AI taking actions in production. All right, let's jump in. Today, I'm joined by Mike Lady, a senior DevOps engineer from Enterprise Vibe Code on YouTube. He's focused on distributed systems.
And we're talking about day two readiness, guardrails, and why the ability to ship safely matters even more now that AI can generate code fast. Mike, thank you for joining me. Thanks. Thank you for having me. So I'm curious, give me your thesis on why do guardrails matter more than good code? I feel like it's a kind of...
Process like we we can we're constraining people and ai to create like uh code that meets the bar meets a certain standard I feel like these it's the it's basically the same thing a human generated code ai generated also all go into the same like pipeline all go into the same like build test deploy phases right so I feel like people are freaking out like making a big deal out of this when we have the same system for people as we do for AI code, right?
And ultimately it's people reviewing and approving this code anyway, right? So I feel like this is, I don't know, we're in the same thing. We're still doing the same thing and we can do it even better now in the age of AI -aided development or five code, whatever you want to call it. People like to call it different things. So for sure, yeah.
So what do you what is day two readiness mean in plain English for people out there that may not know the term or understand the meaning behind it? At least for for what how I'm talking about is like day zero is like you don't have an app. You just have an idea. Day one is you launch the app. You go from zero to one. You launch the app. Hooray. You you have something on the Internet that people can use.
And the day two is the part that comes after that. It's like. How do we maintain this long term? How do we add new features? How do we fix bugs? How do we add security updates and whatnot? Like, how do we change the app over time and maintain it? Because it's one thing to go from zero to one, make it, and that's like the first part of the work. It's a much longer, much more long tail of work after day two, basically.
Yeah, for sure. So what symptoms do you see when teams don't have guardrails, typically? They just pray. They put code into production and just hope that it works. There's some famous quote, it's like, hope is not a strategy, right? You want to be able to try to prove out that this code that you make is as correct as possible.
So if you don't have guardrails, you're going to have weird bugs, you're going to have features that just completely get deleted or something like that, or just don't work. Your users are going to be pissed. It's just not a good thing to just kind of ship, like merge directly to main and then ship that directly to prod and just blindly do that. Yeah.
So do you think that guardrails end up slowing teams down or speeding them up? It's, yeah, ultimately speeding them up. People who are like really... I don't know, early startup run and gun. They're going to feel like, oh, it feels like it feels slow. It's more process. Like we can't get things done. Like we have to fix the tests.
But like now in the age of AI driven development, vibe coding, it's like the AI can do all the hard stuff for you. Like it can like write the tests. It can fix the tests. It can. Do all the stuff that you don't want to do. And then you can focus on the stuff that you don't want to, you want to focus on with features and whatever bug fixes that you want to do and kind of product development.
We get to operate at a higher level now rather than dealing with the build breaking, right? Like we could just say, like my favorite thing to do with AI agents is to have it watch the PR build and it monitors it. It sees the, whatever, the break, like whatever. Thing it fails on and then goes and tries to fix it. And just it goes off in its own loop and just works to make the build pass.
Of course, I need to check the code to make sure it doesn't like just delete the test to make the build pass. Right. But like there's a certain like abstraction or certain like like I'm giving the agent a little bit more control autonomy. I'm delegating the boring developer task of, all right, fix the build.
Type of thing so I think I got a little off track of what you're going but no no speed up versus slow down yeah so ultimately it speeds you up because you're not dealing with all the failure like all the bugs that crop up if you don't have guardrails so yeah I I think too it goes back to like the whole philosophy between but behind iac like slowing down to speed up yep to a certain degree but even that barrier is
Gone now to a certain degree with ai but yeah I've also run into ai agents saying oh you need this test to pass no matter what okay I'll just remove the test or I'll just have it return one it passed see aren't you happy right exactly yep for sure yeah ai agents will lie cheat and steal to make their reward function happy and that that's a steve yeagy quote I'm a yeagy fan boy from uh he has a book and her book vibe
Code vibe coding highly recommend it written with gene kim gene devops god right absolutely yeah so that that's why I like inherit like why I'm working like I'm a big like stevie like beads fan and his newest thing gas town I'm a contributor on it now it's uh yeah I'm super hyped on it cool anyways awesome so walk me through what you check in like a day two readiness audit like what would be like your checklist like
Your top I don't know three things that you would check right so are you properly using source control is it like Okay, you're using Git probably because everything's on GitHub.
Hopefully. Hopefully, yeah, right? Hopefully. Okay, are you using branches? Like, are you just pushing the main? Are you using PRs on GitHub, right? Like, and are you blocking those PRs with quality gates? That's kind of the next thing. Like, do you have a... Is main protected? Branch protection. Yeah, branch protection. Make sure the agent doesn't cheat and just pushes it straight to main, right?
And you actually have to go through all the quality gates on the PR to make sure it passes and you can merge into main. So that's like source control and then quality gates. It's like, okay, does it build? Does it test different levels of tests, like your unit integration, functional? Again, all these tests are essentially free now.
Like they just cost tokens like they don't cost developer time right so it's that's why I'm so like excited about this idea is like before with when I was I'm still devops but like when I first uh started doing devops I was got into through the like testing I was kind of like a ui automator first and then they were like oh how are we going to orchestrate these ui tests it's like oh okay wow grow into a DevOps role for Mac.
It was actually iOS DevOps. So I was mobile DevOps first. And we were racking Mac minis and running these UI tests, making sure the app doesn't break. But it was a pain in the ass to maintain those tests, right? Everyone knows UI tests most brittle. The things on the screen change. You click the button. Maybe you have to click it again because the click didn't send through or whatever.
Like there's all kinds of things where UI tests are like very flaky in general. But now, Like you can just tell it to update it and it'll do it right. And it'll probably fix it in a way that's satisfactory. So that's why I'm so like hyped on this testing quality gate type of thing. Plus like you can run like test driven development.
So you can like have the AI write the test first and then it writes the implementation to pass, make the test pass. So I think it's a huge like boon to all these like methodologies that we all know we should. Have been doing like TDD this whole time. Like, like whatever, for 20 years, I don't know how long TDD has been around, but like I first learned about it in college and I've never done it until now.
Test driven development. Yeah. Yeah. Test driven development. Yes. Yeah. So, so yeah, that's like the, whatever the quality gates, the second thing, config and secrets management. Like, are you like for, for me, I have like a demo app that lives in GitHub. I store all the secrets.
Uh in the git uh not the git repo in the like configuration for the repo and it has like a little secrets place or whatever for it but for um adbs there's secrets management for all these other things have like very specific ways to handle secrets because like that you're gonna have api keys you're gonna have uh things that you need to like connect to or whatever and deploy to so we want to handle those properly so those are And I'll throw in a bonus fourth thing, like deployment model, like how, how do you deploy?
Do you like deploy to like a staging environment first? And then do you like test against that staging environment? Then once that, that test is good, like, do you deploy to prod after that? So like having some sense of like, like test deploying the thing, whether that be on a PR, whether it be on a staging environment, making sure those.
We deploy it somewhere first and ensure that everything comes up before just deploying straight to prod and then breaking prod. Yeah, I think there's certainly a case to be made for testing in prod with the right feature flags and the right segmentation where you could do 1 % or 0 .01 % of traffic, but certainly not day one, day two, day three. You need to have a mature practice before you're able to sign on to that.
Right. Yep. Exactly. Okay, so jumping, we've talked a little bit about AI. So jumping into the AI coding, guardrails. So you have a couple posts on LinkedIn where you talk about AI can write code, but it can't ship it safely without guardrails. What does that actually look like in practice? We talked a little bit about this already, but I'm just kind of curious. What's your philosophy behind that?
Do you treat AI as like a junior developer or junior engineer that you... Build gates on or what gates do you insist with that AI agents? Yeah. So it's a process. So like we have a whole, like we kind of have to force it to go down a path and you do a process. So like that's at the, like we have the same gates at the PR level for everyone, right? For human generated code or AI generated code.
But even before that, I have kind of a, kind of like a plan, like have it plan itself.
Have other agents look at the plan and comment on the plan using like stevie's beads framework but like you could probably do it with other things but and then kind of like think about the plan given those other comments like is these agents aren't even necessarily like the same it's not just claude like I use claude gemini codex whatever else is out there cursor with like rock or something like that like I I think all these different um models are kind of different perspectives.
They're all trained a little bit differently. Yeah, they may be all trained on the internet in general, but like they all have like different, a little bit different perspectives. So I treat those as like a team that kind of like review the plan. And with beads, at least like it can comment and it's non -destructively adding to the plan, like adding different perspectives to the plan.
So it's a beads is like a issue tracking, but for agents where. It's kind of like Jira, you know, like you get a Jira, you can comment on the Jira, you can like help people like work through like making the Jira better or whatever, right? And in a non -destructive way without just saying edit and whatever, completely changing the source material, right? Like without changing the description box, say.
Adding comments is kind of like a way to give your perspective, give your take without. Completely changing the original material. So there's the plan phase. This is kind of like the process guardrail. Plan phase, implementation phase, I have like a belief that you should probably use like one model or one agent as a daily driver. Like you know that agent in and out. Like mine is Claude, but it could be anything.
If you're comfortable with Cursor and you know how Cursor responds or whatever. You learn its quirks. Yeah. Yeah. You learn how it's what it tends to do when it when it tries to lie, cheat and steal. You learn when what it yeah, when it tries to take shortcuts and you can recognize that right away.
So you implement with your daily driver and then you can review, like make a PR and then have all those same agents that like did the planning with you do the PR review and they can all like I forgot a step in the.
The the planning is like you incorporate those comments from those other agents into the plan right and then in the pr review you can say all right take a look at the pr take a look at the the beads the issues and see like how well does it like implement the plan and is there anything that's missing or are there any issues like security issues or perform it like you can have it come at different angles so that's all
Like before we enter our like main pipeline So that's like a pipeline within itself, a pipeline within like the implementation.
I have implementation as like a stage name, but like in the AI agent driven development process, I guess. So I would say that that's like a guardrails, but like human, the shaping that we do, like when we're interacting with the AI. Are you setting? Yeah, that makes sense. Do you?
Are you setting specific like pre -prompt personalities, personas, or are you just relying on like Opus and Sonnet and Gemini like to have their different personality traits because of their training, their LLM training? Yeah, I'm just going with the kind of the base model. A lot of people like to play house.
This is not my quote, but like I'm taking this from, I think this dude from Human Layer, his name might be Dax or something. I saw.
He was giving like a talk youtube video if you search like human layer dude on on youtube uh you'll probably find it and he says like oh yeah people like to play house and have their their teams of agents with their their dev and their qa their manager their product manager their you're like it feels like you're doing uh I don't know like theory crafting like you're you're playing dnd you're the expert like whatever with 20 years experience it's like do you really need to hype the agent up that much?
Or is the, is the model, is the stuff already in the model? Yeah, exactly. By, by asking it, it can, you like review the security. You don't need to prompt it as you're a security researcher. You're a security engineer. Yeah. It's like, you're only, you're kind of obfuscating what it can do at that point too, because you're, you're, you're narrow cat, like narrowing what it's, what it's pulling from or what it can.
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, no, I, I think, yeah, I just use the, as vanilla as possible.
The models so okay just curious then do you notice you would mention as we use more model different models we notice that there's traits when they lie cheat and steal what's your take on obviously the landscape's always changing but what's your take on models right now like is there a specific model that oh this is well and above great for devops versus this one isn't great for devops or cic cic right yeah uh I use
Claude mostly like that that's like a good general I mean, all of them are coding models, but like it seems to be like pretty, like pretty good.
But I do like when I do Codex, Codex seems very thorough when it does its reviews. It always takes the longest. Gemini seems to like be really quick and like it gives some good feedback or whatever, but like Codex seems to take its time and really like analyze what's going on. It really goes through like the issue and usually has some pretty good feedback. So yeah. I think they're all pretty valuable.
So big tech, big AI doesn't want you to know that you can use all of them, that you can use all of them together. Like all of them just want all of your tokens, right? Quad wants all of your enterprise's tokens, like Gemini or OpenAI, whoever. They want your entire token budget. But if you can, I don't know, spare the $20 a month for multiple providers. I know it's hard out there. I know, I know.
Whatever, tough economy and whatnot, but like I view spending on AI is learning. Like you're investing in yourself. You're, you're this as a developer, this is where the industry is going. And I, I'm never going to, I'm hopefully never going to write another line of code.
I'll say that every day and I'll still end up writing a couple of lines here and there, but like it's the, the probability is becoming less and less every day. Right. So. Yeah, you're the manager or the, I guess, the senior working with the junior that's actually doing the work. So Cursor even has the ability now to run multiple models at the same time. Right.
And I think you can even do multiple iterations or runs of the same prompt and verify the output. To be fair, it's on my Cursor. I don't use it. I haven't used that yet, but I have used like the multiple models to kind of see which is best for. And it depends. I mean, it's everyone always wants to use the max model, you know, because they always think that their problem is the most important deep thinking problem.
Yeah, that's generally not the case. Yep. Generally, you can be you can do quite well with just using auto or even just using their auto and their their switcher is actually really good. They're being able to switch models and let them decide which model to use actually works out really well. I mean, they are seeing whatever. Millions of requests a day. So they probably know what they're talking about, right?
You mentioned things like CICD, branch protections, and agents .md. How do these fit together? How do they fit together? Okay. So the agents .md is kind of like your implementation. Like how is the agent on your computer going to act? How is it going to... It's kind of like the base instructions for... How you operate with it on your computer, right?
So then agents to AMD are kind of like the guardrails on your laptop, what you are trying to steer your agent to do as long as it can remember. Like when you run out of contacts, you're, yeah, it's bound to forget stuff, right? But yeah, agents to AMD is kind of like guardrails on your computer. You steer towards the problem. You're trying to solve the problem. You can have like...
There's new things out there that you can have agent orchestration where you have multiple agents running in parallel. They're all trying to like solve different problems potentially on your laptop. You open up all these different PRs and then the CICD pipeline guardrails kind of take over from there.
And then you try to make your builds pass and hopefully you don't like, but you have good enough tests, good enough like code coverage.
Too like that's another big one is like there's like no excuse to not have 80 code coverage now like it's tests are free they just cost tokens so I feel like the the cicd pipeline blocks like basically code but that doesn't work with your existing tests and you can gate the kind of like the code coverage part and say oh it has to be above 80 if you're adding a bunch of code and you gate on 80 and it goes below 80 it
Can require hey you have to add tests like a heart like A hard requirement, you're not allowed to merge until you have a certain level of testing.
And then, oh, branch protection. Yeah, so you don't, like, merge, like, commit directly in main. Like, that's, like, the worst offense is, like, from your developer laptop, you merge directly in main, you, whatever. Potentially, it goes out to production, but you probably, it probably won't because, like, if you don't have CICD pipelines, then you probably wouldn't, like, have branch protection to produce.
To begin with. I mean, I guess you could. Like, if you know CICD pipelines, I don't know why you wouldn't have branch protection, but, like, yeah. These are just all kinds of, like, multi -dimensional guardrails to, like, steer and kind of, like, put your agent on rails and go in the direction that you want it to go. Absolutely.
What do you think the line is between AI -assisted development and AI takes action in prod? Ooh, yeah. Like, so, I've done it myself for my little test app, and, like, it's... Like, I don't care. Like, I've got node users right now. Like, I can let it do stuff in my AWS account and it solves things pretty quickly. Like, it's pretty nice to have it give it, like, access to my AWS account.
It looks at all the logs and, like, honestly, I'm not that, like, I'm not great at AWS. Like, I don't know all the terminology or even whatever, but, like, I'm deploying this app with Terraform into multiple AWS accounts and I have, like, basically a...
Dev AWS account and prod AWS account and I'm kind of like segregating it in that way and yeah if I have like some issue like it didn't this was an issue that was having was it wasn't cleaning up so it deploys as a lambda it whatever tears down it wasn't tearing everything down it was the ENIs were sticking around for some reason and I was like all right just look at the AWS account and see like what why were they
Sticking around and it uh made some like github action like cleanup uh job that like ran afterwards to like make sure everything was cleaned up so uh again like I'm this is some people might scoff at that people may be like oh you don't actually know the real cause or whatever I'm like well but like the agent will know the real cause and like I'm kind of delegating that like you wouldn't know the real cause of like I
Don't know if you're a senior developer and then your junior developer on your team does something and it works, like, yeah, you can kind of see how it works, but you weren't the one writing the code, right?
Like, ultimately, we're delegating some amount of responsibility to other developers. And this is just one more step. We're delegating to a developer on our computer. So I feel like people have this.
Sense of they're losing control or they're losing like like they're almost like identity like their sense of importance as a developer of just of knowing things if they delegate it out they're like what do I do you just get up leveled right like you you're you're now a manager like you you you are now responsible you are still responsible for the quality and what comes out like you're still the one approving pr
Merging it so of course you have to like kind of know what it looks like you you have to kind of know what's going on but I don't know for my small little test app.
Like, yeah, I don't really know what's going on, but like for, so assisted development, totally. Everyone should be using it for touching prod. Yeah. Depends like maybe read only potentially.
Like if, if, if it can give you the logs and can say, given like you give it just a read only I am role say, and it can read all the logs, you read the events, it can read through the traces and like, it can come up with the answer probably much quicker than you can. Like.
Like as I was, I was doing this exercise, the other, not exercise, but like I caught myself reading through a Jenkins log and trying to like trace through like my, uh, like the team's GitHub and the shared library and like, where is this coming from? And I'm like, oh wait, I can just throw it to quad and like quad can figure it out for me like much quicker.
Whereas that would have taken me half a day potentially before. So I feel like the, the habit to build is. All right, how do I use AI first? Like with this thing, like, how do I, how do I throw clot at this thing? And then if it can't, if it's having issues or you can't figure it out, all right, maybe I need to like step in and whatever, do it the old way. But like, that's always like the fallback option. Right. So.
Yeah. I've worked at companies where you've set up MCP servers that would have read -only access to Argo CD, Cube CTL, just to be able to get a. You know, maybe Datadog logging, if there's logs there that need to be, or Sumo Logic or whatever else.
And then it just compiles all that information, looks through it, and can give you a quicker answer than you can by SSH -ing into a box and looking, jumping around, looking at it. Yeah, poking around. So yeah, I think there's 100 % merit to that. Using AI to help figure out root cause is important. For sure. And to your earlier point, you know, back in the day, if you didn't know why...
A network interface was still existing in AWS, you would probably try to read through the docs or reach out to AWS support. And all you're doing is streamlining that process. You're still, it's still the same net result, but you're, and if you do go to AWS support now, you'll probably get an AI -assisted response anyway, right? So. Yeah. Right. That's funny.
But I think the interesting thing is like people are afraid of responsibility. They're afraid, like this is a point that. That's fair.
Again, like, stevie they bring this up is like you're you're now the head their analogy in that book is you're a head chef in a kitchen full of agents like you're of agents as chefs like that you're not making every little single piece of the ingredient for the the dish but you're ultimately responsible those are your michelin stars on the line if something go bad goes out to a customer right so somehow even like
With just we have regular software development organizations, entire teams are kind of built on kind of this delegation of responsibilities, right?
The manager managing a team isn't reading, like isn't coding the code, right? Like they may be reading, they may be in the PRs, they may be like, whatever. But like the less, like I would say an ideal manager is technical, but like they're not like, they're not like a super engineer, right? Like they're not the best engineer on the team. Like they're delegating that responsibility to their team.
So, and I would say managers have been vibe coding this whole time and we're just now like ICs are now like having to deal with that kind of delegation or responsibility, like delegation of like implementation, but still having the responsibility of making sure it's good. So, yeah. Does that, does that make sense? No, it's a hundred percent. Yeah.
And I love that analogy about being like a restaurant or being chefs and then being like your sous chefs or your. Your assistants. I think that that makes a lot of sense. So embracing AI is important for a hundred percent. Now more than ever too, because if you're not, then you're behind, like you're going to get outpaced by someone else that is. Yeah. Potentially outperformed. Yeah.
Like that's where, I mean, we haven't seen that yet, but like it may be coming, like it may be the performance reviews this, if not this year, next year, like just like getting really like granular here. Like if you are, If someone on your team is using AI, they may be putting out like 10 times, potentially, these are, you know, round numbers, orders of magnitude, whatever, two, five, 10 times more work than you do.
And then come performance review time, like maybe not this year, it's kind of early still, but like next year, maybe you don't get a promotion because somebody on your, even though you may think you deserve it or whatever, someone on your team is. Using AI, embracing it. They're a year ahead of you in learning how to use it. It's going to be tough to catch up. Yeah. Anyways.
So wrapping up, given that, the talk of AI, is there any hype take about AI and engineering that you want to kill? Killing a hype take. Interesting. I mean, what haven't I, like with the raining on people's parade about playing house or whatever, but I don't know. Let's see. I think so. Okay. People.
Like to be smug and say I'm gonna end up cleaning up your slop code in whatever six months to a year or whatever I'm like bro nobody's gonna hire you if you're gonna insult like what they did like if they built if they vibe coded an entire product whatever that was successful enough to make money to then have to hire somebody to help clean up the code they're not gonna hire you yeah who's who like posting openly on
Linkedin has a whole x feed of like ai vibe coding hate they're not going to hire you and I think people this is again like the the identity thing is so like kind of wrapped up in this and I think that's kind of underneath all of this is that people want to feel smart and they and they are smart like they're for sure like they're all these people are probably well more qualified at coding than I am it's just I'm
Willing to operate at a whatever I'm willing to give that up like maybe because I'm not great.
I'm not like, I haven't, I've never been like the best developer or whatever, but I'm like, I see how these systems connect together. And like with being DevOps, we glue all these things together. We're at kind of the crux of all these systems interacting and testing and building and whatnot, deploying. I can, I'm willing to say, all right, I don't really enjoy that whole like coding process anyway.
Let me just take a step up and like kind of connect all these systems together at a.
Whatever higher level like I know that I hate that term like that makes me feel like high and mighty or whatever but like it's a level up the stack like people aren't manually coding and assembly anymore people use the high level language of C and people were like oh you're never gonna like know what the what the actual bits are and like we had this whole like that that was the same conversation happened then right So I feel like people being smug online and like having these AI wars or whatever, I take advantage of it.
I like to be a little edgelord online, being pro vibe coding or whatever. But then people, whatever, come by and be negative. And I'm like, thank you for the engagement. But yeah, people aren't going to hire the smug people online who are anti -AI, who have successfully vibe coded applications. So, okay. So wrapping up, you had mentioned the vibe coding books, Gene Kim, Steve Yegge.
Um, is there anything else you'd like to leave our listeners with? I have a YouTube channel where I live stream. It's called Enterprise Vibe Code. I live stream myself, vibe coding, just kind of building in public type of thing. I do it most mornings. I'm a morning person. I get up early, weirdly enough, and people from around the world join the stream and jump in the chat and talk.
So yeah, I ended up talking more than building, which is fine by me. Like I'm whatever, like it's just interesting to, yeah. Recently started that. And I think people are enjoying kind of like talking with other people about this thing and like trying to get a, get a grasp of what is possible because there is no manual, right?
Like nobody, like this is, this is the closest thing we have to a manual and it's not even a manual. Like there, there's no like specific, uh, way to do it or specific way to teach it other than just do it. Right. So, so I, I, I do it for other people in front of on live and hopefully people get something out of that. Yeah, it seems like it's been resonating too. I looked at your channel.
We spoke a little bit before we started recording, which is awesome. So check out Enterprise Vibe Code on YouTube, Mike Lady on LinkedIn, and I'll have all the information and everything we talked about in the show notes. Thanks for coming on, Mike. Really appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks for having me, Brian. Appreciate it. All right, that's my conversation with Mike Lady from Enterprise Vibe Code.
My biggest takeaway is his framing that guardrails aren't process for process sake. They are what makes speed real. Without them, you are just shipping faster failures. And with AI in the mix, that matters even more. AI can write code and even fix builds, but it will absolutely take shortcuts if you let it. So branch protection, CI quality gates, and sane deployment paths. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you later this week.
Scroll inside the box to read the full transcript.