Hey, I'm Brian Teller. I work in DevOps and SRE, and I run Teller's Tech. Ship It Weekly is where I filter the noise and pull out what actually matters when you're the one running infrastructure and owning reliability. If something's just hype, we'll call it hype. If it changes how you operate, We'll talk about it. Most weeks, it's a quick news recap.
In between those, I drop interview episodes with folks across the DevOps world. This is one of those interviews. Today, I'm talking with Maz Islam, aka DevOps with Maz. He's a UK -based DevOps engineer and puts out really solid practical content on both YouTube and LinkedIn.
Today, we're going to hit the why behind DevOps, how to keep leveling up without drowning in tools, and what agentic AI and MCPs might mean for real teams. So Maz, can you go ahead and introduce yourself? Say hi to the podcast listeners. Yeah. Hey, podcast listeners. My name is Maz and I host my YouTube channel, DevOps with Maz. So I'm a DevOps engineer by trade.
And yeah, in my free time, I like to kind of make content. And educate a general kind of LinkedIn audience, anyone on social media who kind of works in a similar industry and wants to kind of know the kind of tutorials and kind of challenges that those engineers face and how to overcome them. So in short, I'm also an advocate for better tech. Awesome. So we can find you, I guess I should have mentioned that, sorry.
We can find you on LinkedIn, Mazerul Islam. He's Mazerul419. And then also on... YouTube with DevOps with Maz. So yeah, be sure to check him out. He has a really good tutorial I just saw on your channel. It was about, I believe, like VPC endpoints versus NAT gateways, right? That's what you were communicating. Yeah. Which is a great topic. It's honestly come up in my day job many times.
One of those conversations around specifically like how to set up networking, data transfer costs, right, is always a concern. I think that's a really, really awesome topic. So for folks who haven't run into your stuff yet, what do you do day to day in your job?
Kind of work on like kind of different projects so when it comes to for example using kind of aws centric so yeah use a lot of aws services such as the ecs and as well as fargate specifically i do launch and manage my own kind of ec2 instances so um yeah i manage kind of all things server side to do with kind of setup and configuration and also kind of translating all those click ops to um finally infrastructures code because we know if we can automate it you know ideally we should Absolutely, yeah.
Less mistakes in the pipeline there. And also talking about pipelines, also transferring that to kind of get up. So implementing CI, CD pipelines and making sure that there's all kinds of considerations for security and FinOps as well. So just measuring how much the costs are for your resources that are deployed.
So developers at the end of the day just have a better experience when it comes to developing the apps and deploying them. Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. So what caused you to originally start sharing?
Devops with mass i know you've always been on linkedin you've been sharing a lot of posts on there um which are awesome which are great i'm just kind of curious though what prompted you to create the channel and and start sharing more yeah so it was kind of born from a kind of struggle i guess me personally in our in our industry when you're in devops you have to kind of wait for a lot of documentation um just to figure out kind of what the answer is so for example you know i've added i made a tutorial on terraform and had kind of set up kind of basic uh kind of linting, you know, using Terraform format, Terraform validate, kind of validate configuration.
You know, when I was kind of figuring that out, how to do that via kind of GitHub Actions, I had to wait for a lot of documentation. For me, I feel like simplifying it as much as you can is very, very important in your mind. And I feel like a lot of the time, DevOps engineers were kind of overwhelmed by the various kind of tools and stuff and waiting for all that documentation.
Essentially about kind of simplifying the concepts and just trying to keep uh kind of ideas as simple as you can to be honest i noticed that the best kind of devops engineers are the ones that can communicate their ideas and yeah i think you're only as good as your kind of communication uh allows you to so i think an important part of that is kind of just communicating and learning how to communicate that message across and that's kind of why i made this channel is to kind of communicate the message that you know devops it can be tricky but If you can figure out kind of how to wait for your documentation and kind of know how to be a problem solver at the end of the day, you can actually bring solutions to life.
And yeah, that's kind of inception of the channel. Absolutely. I agree with that. We were actually talking pre -recording about how even just sometimes training gives you better insight and better visibility or understanding, I guess, around concepts that you had, even just doing it in your day -to -day job. I feel like presenting it to other people lets you. Get to know like different sides of understanding.
Because again, you get tunnel vision over years and you don't necessarily think about things from outside the box or from different perspectives. So when you have, when you're putting yourself in that mindset of someone trying to learn something, right, you grow because you're thinking about it differently than maybe you would in your day -to -day job, just trying to complete a task, right?
Just getting A from A to B. Now you're actually trying to, well, wait, if I don't have any of that understanding, how do I actually even start at A? What is A, you know? Exactly, yeah. It all becomes like really tricky very quickly if you're not careful.
So you always have to be kind of, say, detail -oriented, I'd say, for sure, when you're kind of looking at documentation and just making sure that challenges you, any kind of assumptions you've made, you challenge them and kind of just ask yourself like, you know, I'm actually understanding what's going on here or is there something that I've, some line of code that I don't really understand what's going on here and I really need kind of clarification on that.
So yeah, just keeping yourself accountable at the end of the day. Absolutely. So I'm curious what your thought is when DevOps is actually working at a company, right? So we've implemented it. We have a team. It's, you know, we're still setting stuff up. Maybe we don't have an IDP platform yet for developers. We don't have like great CICD, but we've started implementing some of those first steps.
What changes for a team when we have DevOps? Like once we've implemented that for a team, what changes and what feels different on a random Tuesday rather than just having like a bunch of engineers shipping code? Everybody has their own processes. What does DevOps bring to the table? What's your thoughts on that? Yeah, so I think that links back to kind of the why behind DevOps.
So one really, really nice book that I've been reading that kind of demystified that for me is called The DevOps Handbook by Gene Kim. And yeah, it's just a really, really good insight into how DevOps kind of works in terms of like the business. And for me, DevOps means breaking down a boundary between security.
Developers, operations, and kind of wider business to make sure that, you know, developers are shipping fast in small kind of increments, as opposed to kind of large six, every six months they're pushing a change that everybody knows is going to break, but they all kind of figure out. Yeah, DevOps has kind of completely changed the landscape.
And at the end of the day, DevOps only works if everybody's kind of implementing it from the ground up. So yeah, I think. One quite interesting analogy that was mentioned in the book was about kind of the factory floor and how DevOps is the application of agile methodology to the kind of IT value stream.
So if you think about, say, kind of lean manufacturing, work done in factories, for example, previously, you know, work was done in kind of large batches. So, you know, you'd have kind of like all these dependencies, all these chain of dependencies, these tasks from the...
Would have come in for the cost of some other materials being on actual factory floor and then kind of processing and making like say 50 car panels for example if there was a deep if you made 50 car panels at once and there was a defect in any single one of them you have to redo those panels all over again and just think about for a moment you know at that time they said devops you know if there's say a major kind of change that you're only kind of releasing every kind of let's say six months um if an error were to occur you have to go back to your code base and change everything about it and so with um lead manufacturing and agile methodology is saying well why don't we just break something smaller pieces let's make like couple of car panels here couple of doors couple of windows and then if there's an error in any single one of them you can just go back and make the change and it takes like It will take significantly shorter versus if you're making large batches of changes.
And so just think about that in DevOps, that application of that. If we're making incremental changes to our code, the developers are making incremental changes and just shipping daily. It depends on the company, of course, if they're shipping daily or weekly, what's kind of ideal there. But if they're shipping more often, generally it's the case that if there's an error, they can just go back and roll back.
And that's where the whole kind of tooling comes in. And yeah, I'm a strong... Believe in that. You know, if we can automate some parts of that, make developers' lives easy, have a self -service platform, ideally, that would be kind of the way forwards.
And so to answer your question, yes, in Teams, the DevOps implementation looks like shipping regularly and also ensuring that the boundaries between kind of IT security operations and the wider business are actually solved and everybody's got transparency about it. Yeah, and giving the ability for that iteration, right? That ability to...
Yeah to iterate quickly um it's awesome so if you're in a like a new org what's one tiny change that like you could see let's say for like a company it's very new to devops what's the change that they could make that may be like a big win for them i mean or a win it doesn't have to necessarily be a big win but but a win that could help early on in their process, if they're very, very immature to like DevOps practices and they're not ready to do like full, full implementations and iterations, like they're still doing full big release cycles.
Like what's something that they could bring early on in that process that without having to break everything down, that could help? Definitely say bringing in the stakeholders very, very early into the conversation. So for example, if there's a business change kind of proposed, it's important you get kind of early feedback on it.
As early as possible so if you're making kind of changes down the line to your kind of pipeline you shouldn't you need to get early feedback ideally in order for kind of the stakeholder whoever the business leader is to kind of see if they're happy with the way things are going so having early feedback is just really key to that process you know otherwise What it looks like is, you know, there's complete mismatch.
Again, communication is just the biggest thing within organizations. Obviously, as you grow, you know, it only gets more difficult. Teams get bigger. And, you know, there's only kind of so much that can be handed off until, you know, the delays. So I definitely say ensuring you get early feedback from stakeholders is very, very important.
Yeah, I've definitely worked at companies where there was a DevOps team, but there wasn't.
Uh buy -in by leadership really on devops agile practices right they were from the older older uh shipping you know batch releases and not having like mature cd pipelines not having iac um all click ops right because they didn't see the value they didn't understand the concept of slowing down to be able to speed up down the road or improve and refine over time.
They were looking at the, and I'm sure that's true in like a startup culture too, right? We want to do ClickOps right away to get things, you know, get our MVP up. But at some point we need to mature those practices. We can't just, you know, cowboy every day. So if you had to say DevOps in one sentence, what is it really? Like, what is DevOps? I'd say just, it's just communication. Yeah, that's fair.
It's literally just communication because before, previously, you'd have all these, the IT team, operations team, devs, as well as security, they'd all be kind of siloed together and the handover process rather, you know, like say, for example, if you're working within kind of DevOps and you kind of get like a ticket coming in to create like additional couple of users, you don't know.
Where this has come from or why that is. Let's just say there's a stakeholder kind of up within the business who's kind of requested something like that and there's no kind of transparency or any idea really of how or where this kind of came from. So DevOps basically breaks down all those communication barriers by making sure, firstly, everybody's work is transparent.
Secondly, ensuring that there is a self -service, regular... For developers to just develop code. At the end of the day, developers just want to get on with producing code and making changes to their apps and just shipping. We want to make that as easy as possible in the DevOps industry. And so I feel like that's the main purpose is just breaking down that communication. Communication is key, really. Yeah.
And I think your point around making it easier for developers, I think that's at least my understanding really behind what... Like platform engineering is. And obviously, like, right, we've gone from SysOps to DevOps to SRE. Now it's platform engineering. But I do, there's nuanced differences to all of it, right?
To all the different titles and the different methodologies and ideologies behind those different concepts. But I do think platform engineering, like the idea is building that IDP for development team, letting them be self -service. Building like a service catalog, making sure that they have those tools.
And not that DevOps doesn't incorporate that, but DevOps is almost more, it's almost too wide of an idea of what all encompasses. You go to some companies, you're just a cloud engineer. You don't actually do any quote unquote DevOps day to day work. You go to another company, it may be all building, you know, backstage and building out that IDP. You go to a different company and it may be.
Actually doing like CICD and improving like the developer experience and building out those pipelines and making them more robust and having better status checks so, you know, the PRs can be merged quicker and actually speed up that development cycle. And that's like what I find at least is like it's different for everyone. So it's hard to pin down.
You could even go back to the whole idea that like DevOps is not a title, right? It's an actual idea. It shouldn't be a title at least. We've lost that war. I certainly, I agree with that. I'm a DevOps engineer by trade. I get that. But it's just funny to see like the evolution of what DevOps means. Yeah. It's honestly like, I think in the UK at least that we, it just changes from company to company really.
You end up wearing different hats throughout your career. And yeah, it just is a whole Pandora's box really, the titles and stuff, isn't it? So, yeah. No, for sure. So we both build. Training for people that are either in DevOps or looking to get into DevOps.
And so what would you say to someone who's either aspiring to be a DevOps engineer, maybe they're a back -end engineer, maybe they're a front -end engineer and they're looking at DevOps, they'd say, wow, I really like that side of the development cycle. I want to do more with that. What would you tell someone as far as like keeping up with tools? Because I find keeping up with tools is hard. Right.
I've been in the industry for like 25 plus years. It's still hard because everything changes all the time. My last episode was literally about like it changed halfway through writing the episode because GitHub came out with a new release around, you know, like, oh, we're rolling this change back now. Right. So what do you say? Like, what's your thoughts on that? What do you do to stay up to date with tools?
What's your thoughts on that? I'll definitely say, speak to other people within your industry. So just like how we reached out to each other today. You know, I, for example, when I found out that I did actually know prior to this, that I've actually rolled that back until we mentioned it. So yeah, it's quite, it's quite interesting, really. I definitely say, yeah, interact with other people in the industry.
Networking is very, very key to being updated in your industry. Yeah, don't. When you're working in this kind of career, you don't want to kind of silo yourself. Otherwise, you know, you end up in a sort of cave and, you know, it doesn't even take a year and you're already kind of, your skills are kind of out of date, let's say. It's very, very tempting to do that.
We all have kind of our lives and stuff to get along with outside of work. I'd say definitely make use of kind of networking opportunities. Let's say user groups. I know I attended an AWS user group kind of a month ago. That would kind of keep updated too. With like, I think they mentioned like ML kind of models and how to use IDP.
So intelligent document processing within lifecycle, which I never kind of considered and never knew that AWS does. So just go to events, meet other people in your industry, whatever that looks like, you know, just go for it. Yeah, don't be afraid to kind of step out of your kind of comfort zone and speak to others kind of similar to you. You never know what you might learn. Yeah.
What would you recommend for someone to do as like a first project? Like, let's say I wanted to get into DevOps. I maybe know a little bit of Terraform, but I don't know a lot. I know some YAML because I've used that before for other applications. But what would be like a good first like GitHub 101 project that I could have in my back pocket when I go to my first like junior DevOps engineer interview?
Yeah, I'd say definitely having a kind of any project where you deploy an app. And make use of, say, the ECS service within AWS. That's the thing. I don't know if that's too beginner -friendly or not, that's the thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm thinking I might be a bit much, but just to say deploying a simple application, maybe making use of hiding a brand application load balance, for example, in a public subland, keeping your kind of actual app private. That will teach you a lot of kind of networking fundamentals for sure. And yeah, you'll just, you'll be surprised what you learn along the way, you know.
So you can also, you try and Dockerize the application. I think that's very, very important to know. Docker is definitely a useful skill and trying to build kind of multi -stage builds. Yeah. So in summary, just try to Dockerize an app and deploy it behind an application load balance, I would say. And the ECS stuff, you can do that if you want.
I think that's a huge, huge kind of plus points if you're able to do that as well. Yeah. Or just use Docker Hub and just just to start.
But yeah, no, I'm with you because a lot of junior engineers I talk to, like so talking to the networking side of the ALB that you're talking about, I've talked to a lot of engineers where networking is definitely the hardest part to learn just because it's not taught in school, I guess, as much as it was back in the day. And a lot of it's like obfuscated from from people's periphery.
So you create an AWS account, they give you the default VPCs, and a lot of people just start using that. They don't really understand what availability zones are, what ACLs are, how to create like route tables, how to deal with like cider blocks and cider block collisions, how to build transit gateways, right?
So you start to get into like all the stuff related to the VPC networking wise, and like that can feel really daunting. But I do agree, like just start with default AWS account, take what they give you. The default's fine, at least to start.
And then really focused on like the ALB and building out like the security group rules, like you talked about, like knowing what a private ALB is, how to set those rules so like not anybody can just get to it and understanding that. And then you can kind of work your way back to the networking side and learn that as you go, right?
You don't need to know everything day one, but you can't know everything day one either. It's just not possible. Yeah, exactly. And a learning process just, it does take a while. And it is, it is the sort of thing where, you know, you would encounter an error and you might be stuck on it for days even. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just. We've all been there. Yeah. You got, you got to take your time with that.
There's not really much else I can say there. Yeah. So earlier you were talking about staying connected and stay on top of things. And you mentioned going to conferences. So we were talking earlier in, earlier you had mentioned you went to DataFam Europe by Tableau. And. Can you tell me about that? Like, tell me about the conference. What did you learn? Like, what are some cool takeaways from that?
Honestly, yeah, DataFam was just, it was beautiful. Wow. It was just, there was so much I took away from that. Like, you know, so I do a bit of data as well. Yeah, I'm trying to kind of get to grips with Tableau and understanding. So for context, Tableau is a dashboarding tool. I can just kind of visualize the data. There's all sorts of kind of neat tricks you can use.
And main focus of this year's event was AI, AI enablement. Yeah, because a lot of times AI can do our kind of busy work, our boring work for us and kind of analyze data behind the scenes. And there's a couple of kind of products that Tableau has announced. So for example, you have Tableau Pulse, Tableau Inspector. There's one other one I can't remember off the top of my head, but essentially they...
Query your data and tell you, you just give it a prompt, you know, tell me about the sales forecast this week and it will just dive into your data. Instead of you having to kind of manually look up in a table, it'll build kind of dashboards for you. You don't have to worry about the dashboarding part, it just does it for you. And yeah, it's just, you just do it from a simple prompt.
And one thing you could do is also have custom kind of MCP server connections so you can connect up your own kind of AI agents to it. To run your own customization, you can kind of go for that as well. So it's really, really kind of powerful event and I think paves the way for what a future organization might look like, future businesses going agentic.
And I think it's just a really exciting concept, to be honest, that's worth exploring. That's cool. So full disclosure, I have not played with Tableau too much. I have set up Tableau bridges for data teams at organizations, but I have not actually gone into Tableau and like dealt with like data manipulation much myself. Seems like a really cool tool, though.
And it's interesting because every company, it seems like every conference now, Confluent just had a conference. It was all AI, AWS reInvent, very AI focused. Definitely is where the industry is. And it makes sense. I mean, AI is definitely a great tool. But I'm just kind of curious, what does an agentic org mean in plain English? Like, what is that? Yeah, agentic org really is the future of orgs, to be honest.
Organizations, they embrace AI and all its... Capabilities that come with it. So a lot of organizations, they have a lot of admin work, a lot of work that's kind of boring that they don't really want to do.
And so automating it as much as you can, you know, just how DevOps engineers automate ClickOps through Terraform, you know, organizations want to extend that and just whatever we can automate, like I said earlier, you know, intelligent document processing, for example, a lot of like industries such as insurance or financial services, a lot of kind of documents to read.
There's a lot of kind of manual input needed to kind of process that information. So automating that is one way to unlock time and energy and money as well, which is probably the most important thing.
Going to the company, to the company, the bottom line, improving their bottom line through using AI to reduce the kind of burden and the cost of the kind of services that they need and the time that they need to invest to actually build products. So it's all about creating efficiencies within organizations. And that's what being an agent takes.
Organization means is using ai to effectively leverage the capabilities to enhance like all that busy work just leave that to ml models really and automate that stuff so you can get to work on making more important decisions and you know not concern yourself with all that manual labor so yeah no that makes sense so speaking to using everybody use i use ai All day at work, right? Everybody does now.
Use it on PR reviewing to like look at a PR and give constructive feedback. Because especially if you're reviewing PRs all day, it's very easy to miss something as a human. Whereas AI may cache something that you missed. Use a cursor to help write code. Use it to help debug. If you have an MCP server hooked up that can maybe get into like Argo CD.
And your kubernetes cluster it can easily and quickly read logs quicker than i could right and parse them and figure out maybe like a root cause for for like a crash loop back off or something like that but on a recent episode i talked about prompt pwn by aikido and how they're talking about prompt injection vulnerabilities like in github actions and It just has me thinking like, so what are your thoughts on like what an agent can run and how we build guardrails around that?
Because like I think AI is here to stay. It's a great tool. And I'm not saying we shouldn't use it. But what are your thoughts around the guardrails? Because like it is non -deterministic, right? So it's just a concern, I guess. I don't know. What are your thoughts? Oh, yeah. This might be one of the areas where I'm just, yeah, I'm completely new to this.
I've just been, I've been dunked into the wall and I guess I'm still trying to figure out what that looks like. So yeah, I don't really have an answer to be honest. It's not an easy question. No, it's not. There's not an easy answer for sure. Yeah, I'm not trying to put you on the spot because I feel the same way. So I've even found that like cursor roles are not always applied. You can set cursor roles.
It may sometimes, especially when a chat conversation gets too long or you let it, break its guardrails previously in a conversation it thinks that it can continue to break its guardrails but like it's very scary in that way where ai like you can build caverno policies you can build policies around code enforcement and i guess that has to live outside of ai and then at least right now my thought is not letting just ai just run everything not letting it just break glass everywhere or have complete control everywhere and like you would for any service account or IAM role, giving it very least privilege, specific permissions that it needs, very limited to what it's allowed to do and guardrail that as best you can.
I don't think that's even a great answer. I think that's an okay answer that helps some of it, but I don't think it answers all the questions either, unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I don't think anyone should be letting AI kind of take full control of full access of their account. I think that's, yeah, that. Because I see it on my LinkedIn feed weekly.
Someone's just given the AI just full access to their account and then it's just deleted the whole entire home, for example. And it's like, how did you get it? Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah, I've run into some of that myself as well. And it's scary. You have to be very conscientious of what you let...
What you give the AI as far as the data and also what you let the agent do because the agent may live within the guardrails and the pre -prompts that you give it. It may not too. So there are, you know, it's a concern for sure. So, all right, let's wrap up. Just curious if you could, just a couple of quick questions.
If you could give one person a piece of advice for someone that's trying to break into DevOps in the upcoming year, 2026, what would be that advice? What advice would you give? I would. Definitely stay consistent. It's very, very easy out there with the overwhelming amount of tools.
You know, just you feel like you're getting overwhelmed and you need like, it's very tempting to just want to take a break, to be honest. And yeah, it's just, it's a very, very tricky, tricky world out there, DevOps, especially like given how...
Far it's come you know there's so many different tools like i'm only starting to realize how many tools there are every time i try and go delve beyond like terraform you know i'm for example i'm implementing a project right now where i'm using terragram and honestly like it's a lot it's a bit more difficult to kind of configure but i'm appreciating you know that it does with the kind of state file management for example you know having a step state files and keeping your code dry, it does definitely have its benefits.
So there's all sorts of tools out there that will benefit you during your journey. And the main thing is just pushing through and being consistent. And yeah, as I said before, there's those, you're going to have days, you're going to have days literally where you're stuck on an issue and you just got to keep on pushing to be honest. So yeah, anyone out there who wants to break in, you know, just stay consistent.
Yeah, don't give up. You know, you can take a break, no problem, but just make sure you don't drop the ball. Yeah. I love Terragrant. I use it every day at my job. I was originally on Terraform Cloud, started using Terragrunt, separating out the state files into different buckets, handles that automatically for you. You can do more localized module control easier, keeping your code dry.
Templating with the HCL files is just, it's a great addition to Terraform or OpenTOFU, whichever you're using. And agree, yeah, stay consistent and just be curious, right? Just keep learning. So where should people follow you? Let's backtrack on that. I know we mentioned at the top, but yeah. Just let people know. Yeah. Yeah. So you can find me on LinkedIn. So yeah, Masaharu419. Yeah.
So just for this additional bit of info, yeah, I'm currently a DevOps engineer at Codeco. So they provide kind of like training and delivery in kind of DevOps. To kind of inspire DevOps engineers. So it's a really, really good community to join. So yeah, I highly recommend it. And yeah, I'm on YouTube as well, DevOps with Maz. And also I've recently started kind of Instagram and TikTok as well with the same handle.
Well, speaking of handle, I'm trying to get a handle on that kind of content. So it's quite tricky. So yeah, I'm trying to build a video right now, actually. And yeah, it's not easy, you know, content creation. So yeah. It's a different world. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it, Maz. I appreciate having you. And I'll link everything that you mentioned in the show notes. Thank you so much.
No problem. Thank you so much for having me. All right. That's the interview with Maz. Quick reminder on the format. Ship It Weekly is still the weekly news recap. And I'm dropping these guest convos in between. If you want to catch both, hit follow or subscribe wherever you are listening. And if this was useful, share it with a coworker or your on -call homie and leave a quick rating or review.
It's annoying how much that actually helps the show. We'll be back next week with a regular news episode. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening.
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