0:00
A lot of people trying to get into cloud or DevOps
0:02
think the answer is learning more tools. Usually,
0:05
it's the opposite. More focus, better fundamentals,
0:09
more repetition, and a much clearer understanding
0:12
of the business problem you are trying to solve.
0:15
Because being job ready is not knowing everything.
0:18
It's knowing the basics, knowing how to learn,
0:21
and knowing how to connect technical work to
0:23
what actually matters for the business. Hey,
0:42
I'm Brian. I work in DevOps and SRE and I run
0:45
Tellers Tech. Ship It Weekly is where I filter
0:48
the noise and focus on what actually matters
0:51
when you are the one running infrastructure and
0:53
owning reliability. Most weeks, it's a quick
0:56
news recap. In between those, I do interview
0:58
episodes with people who are actually building.
1:01
teaching and mentoring in the space today is
1:04
one of those interviews i'm joined by yvonne
1:07
young a cloud and linux mentor who helps guide
1:10
early career engineers through the cloud whistler
1:12
community and this one is really about the real
1:15
path in we talk about why linux still matters
1:19
as a foundation why so many people stall out
1:21
by trying to learn everything at once what job
1:24
ready actually means and why consistency beats
1:28
cramming every single time We also get into certifications,
1:32
hands -on practice, how to keep skills from fading
1:35
after the exam, how to talk about tools in terms
1:38
of business outcomes, and what better onboarding
1:41
and mentorship should actually look like for
1:44
junior engineers. If you like these kinds of
1:47
conversations, follow the show wherever you listen,
1:50
subscribe on YouTube, and check out shipitweekly
1:53
.fm or tellerstech .com for more episodes, show
1:57
notes, and everything else that I'm building.
1:59
Alright, let's jump in. Today, I'm joined by
2:06
Yvonne Young. She mentors young engineers through
2:09
the Cloud Whistler community. And we're talking
2:11
about the real path into cloud DevOps, Linux
2:14
fundamentals, daily reps, automation basics,
2:17
and how to tie all of it back into business problems.
2:21
Yvonne, thank you for joining me. Yeah, nice
2:23
being here. I'm glad you invited me. So what's
2:25
your core philosophy when you mentor someone
2:27
trying to break into cloud or DevOps? Well, the
2:30
first thing is to know what you're passionate
2:33
about. So there are a lot of ways you can go.
2:36
You can go database engineer. You can go security.
2:39
What do you want to do? So once you focus on
2:41
that, then you can have a path. The other thing
2:44
is important is to have a mentor. If you don't,
2:47
it's going to take you a lot longer. So and a
2:49
mentor in that field, because they'll guide you
2:52
in the right direction. And when you have your
2:55
career struggles, that's where it helps. This
2:57
other thing is joining a community. I can't stress
3:00
how important the community is. You have support.
3:03
You have people in your shoes. You have people
3:06
that are more experienced than you are. And getting
3:09
involved in a community and a mentor is a great
3:12
way to start. And so you're part of the Cloud
3:15
Whistler community, so that could help. And that's
3:18
why we formed it. just for that reason. So to
3:21
guide people, to have support, and some of the
3:24
courses that we're offering, we offer through
3:27
the community. So when you purchase some of our
3:29
courses, you join our community, and then you
3:32
get the support. And then the... Courses are
3:34
through the Tech With Engineers? Yes. Is that
3:36
correct? It's actually through Cloud Whistler.
3:39
So Tech With Engineers is the company, and then
3:42
Cloud Whistler is the community from that company.
3:45
And the course is based through Cloud Whistler.
3:47
Awesome. So what do you think most people get
3:49
wrong when they get into DevOps? They try to
3:52
learn everything. They see all these cool tools.
3:55
I'm going to learn that. I'm going to learn that.
3:57
I'm going to learn that. Next thing you know,
3:58
they're all over the place. And then they...
4:01
You know, there's no direction. So the first
4:03
thing is, well, what are you like? Because you
4:06
can't learn all the tools. So what are you going
4:08
to learn? One of the things is once you decide
4:11
what your passion is, you think about a company
4:13
you want to work for and the role that you're
4:15
targeting. So if you pick a role and you're targeting
4:18
a role that is in the cloud, they use AWS. OK,
4:21
you can go in that direction. Are you into security
4:24
database? Knowing what you want helps you guide
4:28
in that direction. And then, of course, if you
4:30
have a mentor. But the biggest problem is being
4:33
all over the place as far as. And the other thing,
4:35
let's say you have two certificates and you want
4:37
to go for three. Do one at a time. You can't
4:40
just focus on one at a time. So that's another
4:43
mistake is you do a little bit here and then
4:45
next thing you know, you're not focused on one.
4:48
Only and then not knowing which tool to study.
4:52
you know for it because some so what tools are
4:55
important i'm looking at so the thing the business
4:58
problems are security that's huge and businesses
5:01
moving to the cloud and then microservices so
5:03
you want tools for the cloud if you work for
5:06
companies in the cloud and then security of course
5:09
security tools you don't have to be a security
5:11
expert to master a tool So for example, I'm going
5:14
for Vault and not that I'm a security expert,
5:17
but as IT professional, you need to be security
5:20
conscious at all times. Vault is, I picked that
5:23
one because one of the business problems is securing
5:26
the passwords, servers. And so a sequence management
5:31
tool helps with that. And that's a big security
5:33
problem. And using something like Vault, too,
5:36
is also cloud agnostic. So you don't have to
5:38
worry about getting into like AWS Secrets Manager
5:40
specifically or GCP's version. Absolutely. So
5:43
actually, people who don't know Vault, with Vault,
5:45
it ties into other services like AWS, Kubernetes.
5:49
So you're one stop shop and then you have access
5:53
to all the other providers. What does job ready
5:57
actually mean to you? Job ready means that. You
6:01
have done your research, you know, of the company
6:04
that you're targeting, looked at the role and
6:06
the description. And when you prepare for the
6:09
interview, you have two interviews you have to
6:11
prepare for, a technical interview and a behavioral
6:13
interview. So you need to prepare for both. So
6:16
doing those things, practicing what you're going
6:18
to say. And so I think I would say that the research,
6:23
the questions you're going to ask, you think
6:24
you're going to get asked. And then thinking
6:27
about the two types of energies you're going
6:28
to have. They want to know if you fit culturally
6:31
and they want to know your technical skills.
6:33
The other thing is about not knowing everything.
6:36
So it's kind of scary with the technical interview
6:38
because you don't know what they're going to
6:39
ask you. What you do is know the basics. Okay,
6:42
you know the basics. Now, what if they ask you
6:45
what you don't know? Well, you don't know that.
6:47
However, here's what I would do to find out if
6:51
I were on the job. So now they know, oh, okay,
6:54
they're very resourceful and also having a history
6:57
of learning, a learning history. So you don't
7:00
have to know everything. Just know the basics
7:02
and let them know that you're a passionate learner
7:05
and you can learn fast. Yeah. Let me get back
7:08
to you on that or let me look into that. It's
7:10
OK, especially in our field. It's OK to not,
7:13
you know, the imposter syndrome is such a big
7:15
deal. Exactly. It's such a big thing. It's OK
7:17
to not know everything. I've been in the industry
7:20
25 years. I don't know everything. Exactly. And,
7:22
you know, I think it's important to. to recognize
7:25
that and to have that humility in yourself to
7:28
be like, okay, hey, I don't know this, but that's
7:30
okay. I know how to find the answer. Exactly.
7:33
That's the most important thing. So you push
7:35
Linux hard. We do. Why is that still a foundation?
7:39
Crucial. Servers, all the servers run on Linux.
7:42
The cloud runs on Linux. Everything runs on Linux.
7:46
So you really, as an IT professional, you need
7:49
to be versed in Linux. I mean, that's the basics.
7:55
That's the foundation. So if you want to learn
7:57
around all these tools, start with Linux. And
7:59
then you mentioned that, where do you start if
8:02
you're getting into tech? Start with Linux. That's
8:04
the best way to start. If you do your research,
8:07
you'll find that on -prem, cloud, everything's
8:10
Linux -based. I mean, they're Windows servers,
8:12
but basically that's what you have. So that's
8:15
why we push it so hard. It's very important.
8:17
It's crucial. Not to be a master in Linux. Just
8:20
know the basics. Just be functional. Just, you
8:23
know, know how to copy files, know how to backup,
8:25
know how to see if you have enough disk space.
8:27
Just the basics. And you'll be good to go. And
8:30
then you learn from there. So I was looking online
8:32
and I noticed that you talk a lot about practice
8:35
and retention after certifications. What system
8:38
kept your skills from fading? Yeah, oh, that's
8:42
a huge one. So because I would learn. learn something,
8:46
right? And then I would drop it for a few days
8:48
and then I would go back to it and I would go
8:50
to run a command. And I'm like, I have to think
8:53
about that. I forget it. So there's so many commands.
8:56
So I say, after you get your basics and get your
8:59
certification, practice, you know, an hour a
9:02
day, 30 minutes a day, keep it fresh. And I actually
9:06
have a checklist of things I'm going to study
9:09
a day. And I might do 30, 45 minutes daily and
9:12
just the basics. just to keep it fresh. The thing
9:15
is, is there's so many commands and it leaves
9:18
you. It's just, you know, it leaves you. And
9:21
when you go on an interview, they're going to
9:22
ask you the basics. They're not going to ask
9:24
you, you know, complicated stuff. Can you copy
9:27
a file? Can you move a file? Can you back up?
9:30
Can you zip a file? So just the basics. So if
9:33
you just study the basics daily, let's say, and
9:36
I say 30 minutes because people don't have time
9:38
and I get that. So you don't have an hour. 30
9:41
minutes, or just put your finger on it at some
9:44
point. If you can't do it every day, every other
9:48
day is fine too. But just to, you have to do
9:51
that, it will leave you. Also, before an interview,
9:54
you have to stay consistent. And before an interview,
9:56
brush up. And like I said, going on an interview,
10:00
just know the basics. They're not going to have
10:03
you build a server with Linux on an interview.
10:07
Just the basics. Another thing I thought, know
10:11
how to use the help file. So they ask you a question
10:13
and they ask you to share your screen and you
10:16
forget a command. Hold up, let me go to the help
10:19
file. So they see that you know how to use the
10:21
help file to find your answer. So that's what
10:24
I would do. Know where the main pages are, know
10:27
how to read them, know how to read the help flags
10:30
for each command. yeah that's what the techs
10:33
do especially if you don't use it especially
10:36
if you don't use the commands every day because
10:38
there are commands that you're not going to use
10:39
every day so you're going to look those up yeah
10:43
it's it's funny i'm thinking back to like sed
10:45
and awk i i can't tell you every flag and every
10:48
yeah it's you can't remember it all um and forget
10:52
regex if you're getting into regex i mean it's
10:55
That's still a black hole for me to a certain
10:57
extent. So I think I did write a post about remembering.
11:00
I can't remember. It was a couple of posts back.
11:02
You may have read it about keeping it fresh.
11:05
Yeah, so consistency. That's the other thing.
11:08
You said something really important, consistency.
11:11
So I see people, they study for two days, then
11:14
they let it go for four or five days, then they
11:15
pick it up again. Then they go a couple of days.
11:18
That consistency really does pay off. And it
11:20
doesn't have, here's the thing. It doesn't have
11:22
to be an hour, two hours, short times, just a
11:25
short time. That's it. And then brush up before
11:28
an interview. Okay. So after you start getting
11:30
some skills, you're getting some familiarity.
11:32
Maybe the next step is you start thinking about
11:34
certifications. Can you explain to me, I know
11:36
there's like RHCSA and RC. RHCE, what are the
11:41
differences and what would you recommend as far
11:43
as certifications? So Red Hat Certified Systems
11:45
Administrator. You start with that. And then
11:49
Red Hat Certified Systems Engineer, Certified
11:51
Engineer. I would start with RHC and say that's
11:54
the basic. Engineer, the engineer course is a
11:56
higher level. And that would be Ali Sohail's
12:00
expertise. So definitely start with that. It's
12:03
challenging. It takes you to the next level.
12:05
What's great about that is the exam is hands
12:08
-on. So you really get hands -on, you know, practicing
12:12
it and learning it. So it's valued because they
12:15
know you have hands -on skill. That's why it's
12:18
so valued. It's different from an exam where
12:20
you have to memorize the, you know, the two -foul,
12:24
you know, pick this one. You can memorize those.
12:27
But to ask you to actually do something, run
12:30
the commands, that's a different story. So that's
12:33
a great thing about that certification. What's
12:36
a hands -on project you would give someone that
12:38
would prove real skill? Oh, what I would do is,
12:41
first, you know how to set up a VMware or VirtualBox.
12:45
And then, let me see, just troubleshooting. So
12:49
let's say you learn all these commands. Let's
12:52
say SELinux. You do something to break it, and
12:55
then you see if you can troubleshoot it. you
12:57
know the firewall commands you know commands
12:59
to see if if you can run so i i think troubleshooting
13:03
trying to think of an example Yeah. If you can
13:08
set up an SE Linux server and then break it,
13:11
and then the commands you would run to find out
13:14
what's wrong with it, I would say that just to
13:17
the status, check the status. Okay. You can see
13:20
a service is not active. Okay. If it's not active,
13:22
what do you do to make it active? That kind of
13:25
thing. So the commands to make it active, the
13:27
commands to check the status, the command to
13:29
check the ports or just to view the ports. Are
13:32
there any ports open? That kind of thing. So
13:35
it's checking ports, checking the status, firewall.
13:38
So I say troubleshooting, breaking things and
13:41
then fixing. Because I just thought of something.
13:44
So you can learn all the commands. Now something
13:46
is broken, what command do you run to troubleshoot?
13:50
And so you just start with the basics. You just
13:52
run system CTL status. How do you teach juniors
13:56
to translate tech work into business outcomes?
13:59
I would say... This is a good one. So whatever
14:02
tool you learn, understand what business problem
14:05
they're trying to solve. So, for example, why
14:09
does a company want to go to the cloud? I mean,
14:12
and maybe some companies are on -prem. How do
14:14
you convince them to go to the cloud? So convince
14:17
them about saving money instead of getting physical
14:20
servers, being more efficient, being able to
14:23
spin up servers really quickly as opposed to
14:25
the hardware. So understanding. That's another
14:29
good point you brought up. So you're learning
14:31
all these tools. Why are we learning these tools?
14:33
You're trying to solve a business problem. The
14:35
cloud, for example, being efficient. Vault, for
14:38
example, security. So it's not so much the tools,
14:42
understanding the business problem you're trying
14:44
to solve. So I stress that a lot. Why are we
14:48
learning these tools? So that's what I talk about.
14:51
And I get Vault as an example. Let's give you
14:53
an example. One of the business problems. is
14:56
uh what's called secret sprawl and basically
14:58
a secret is anything that a company finds valuable
15:01
that would be a breach of if the bad act has
15:05
got it so passwords you know encryption keys
15:07
so secrets fall are those those secrets that
15:12
are everywhere in the company someone's desktop
15:14
somewhere in someone's excel file you got these
15:17
passwords that everywhere secret sprawl the tool
15:20
vault solves that problem by putting everything
15:23
centralized and encrypting it and keeping it
15:26
secure and only let certain people access it.
15:28
But that's a serious business problem. I mean,
15:30
people, you got the DevOps that has the passwords
15:33
over there, you got the... SysEngineer, they
15:36
got the password there. They're sharing passwords.
15:38
Someone leaves the company and they have the
15:40
password. So that's a serious business problem.
15:43
So that's an example. And rotating, even just
15:46
rotating those secrets too. Exactly. That's where
15:49
dynamic password generation comes with Vault.
15:52
So talking about Vault, not the tool itself,
15:55
it's the business problem you're trying to solve.
15:57
Because there are other management tools out
15:58
there. What are we trying to do? So I don't promote
16:01
the... Tool more so is what are we trying to
16:05
solve? Yeah. And there are like, there's OpenBao,
16:07
which is open source versions. Yeah, that's right.
16:10
If you don't want to get into the HashiCorp ecosystem
16:12
specifically. Exactly. Yeah. That's why I say,
16:15
you know, I focus on the tool. It's exactly because
16:17
there's other options out there. So, okay. Let's
16:19
say someone's, they've. learned some linux they've
16:22
they've learned a little bit about secrets management
16:24
they want to get into cloud where where should
16:26
they start once they've they've gotten a little
16:28
bit of that foundation level with with linux
16:30
and some understanding what secrets are and rotating
16:32
secrets where do they go from there as far as
16:35
cloud or as far as devops practices so the as
16:39
far as devops and cloud different companies use
16:41
different cloud technologies you've got azure
16:44
you've got aws So you don't have to know them
16:48
all. You can learn one and then you learn another
16:51
one on the job. So just pick your poison or target.
16:55
Let's say you want to work for a company. What
16:56
are they using? Okay, they're using Azure. Okay,
16:59
let's go in that direction. So learning the basics,
17:02
cloud basics. Why do companies use the cloud?
17:04
Why do they need it? And then knowing, understanding
17:08
why we want the technology. It's huge. Technology
17:10
is huge. So as far as the course, there are a
17:14
lot of... basics courses out there, but I believe
17:18
in technology, you do need to know cloud security
17:21
basics and cloud basics, at least. So those are
17:25
the actual, those are the big things that companies
17:27
want to solve. Microservices, security, cloud.
17:29
That's just top of the list is more, but so.
17:32
So like objects, storage, databases, instances,
17:36
and like microservices. Microservices. So Kubernetes
17:39
is one. Thank you. So. And then it depends on
17:43
the, see, that's the thing. It depends on the
17:45
company. If it's a large company like IBM, you
17:49
got Volt, you have, if it's a smaller company,
17:51
not all companies use all those technologies.
17:53
So where are you going? Do you want to work for
17:56
a small company? Okay, what technology are they
17:58
using? Do you want to work a mid -sized company?
18:00
So it depends. The other thing is if you learn
18:03
AWS, well, if you get in a company that works
18:05
with Azure, you can learn Azure. That's not a
18:07
problem. But you understand the concept of the
18:10
cloud. So it's not the tool you learn. It's understanding
18:13
that you know cloud technology. It's the principle
18:16
behind why companies are using the cloud. But
18:19
I think cloud basics is important. Linux basics
18:22
is important. And security. Those are the three
18:24
things that you want to start with and be conscious
18:27
of. The security, that's a whole different level.
18:31
If someone wants to get into security, it takes
18:33
a while to get in that industry to be... a security
18:37
expert, every IT professional should be security
18:40
conscious, know how to use security tools, you
18:44
know. So that goes without saying. So you can
18:46
use the tool, but you don't have to be a security
18:48
expert. But you need to be, that should be on
18:51
the top of everyone's, that's number one. And
18:53
if you want to get more specific into security,
18:55
there is like DevSecOps or SecOps specific practices
18:58
you could get into. Yes, there are. Absolutely,
19:00
there are. And that's a whole different. Yeah,
19:03
it's a completely different world that you get
19:05
into dealing with audits and doing like audits
19:08
for companies or providing evidence for audits.
19:10
Yeah, and I just thought of something. So you
19:12
brought up a good question. Where do they start?
19:14
It's huge. You can go security. You can go infrastructure.
19:18
You can go SRE, site reliability engineer. With
19:22
all these choices, you decide what do you want
19:24
to do? What do you like? What are you passionate
19:26
about? Because you can't split yourself everywhere.
19:29
So once you decide, okay, I like cloud. I like
19:32
database. Now you can hone that down to what
19:35
you want to do. So I think part of it is knowing
19:38
what you're passionate about. If you take a job
19:41
just because there's a nice paycheck, And you
19:44
get into databases and you don't like databases.
19:46
Oh, well. So I think I start them with, what
19:51
do you like? What do you want? I mean, what are
19:53
you passionate about? Yeah. Yeah. What are you
19:55
going to spend time on learning? What are you
19:57
actually going to, you talked about the consistency
19:59
earlier. What are you going to, what's going
20:00
to drive you to be consistent? What's something
20:02
that has passion or at least some passion for
20:04
you that you could, you can continue learning
20:06
in without it being a struggle or a real, like
20:09
real, real hard effort. And then you just, then
20:11
you kind of hone. You can focus on the direction
20:14
you want to go in because you're just honing
20:16
it down. Let's say it's cloud. The other thing,
20:18
mentorship is huge because without a mentor,
20:22
you're going to be, you know, wandering. A mentor
20:25
in your area that you want, let's say another
20:28
Linux or professional, joining a community and
20:32
having a mentor is huge. Because trying to do
20:35
it by yourself, you're going to wind up maybe
20:38
in the wrong direction. But mentors definitely,
20:41
because they have the experience, they know they
20:43
can advise you. And when you have struggles,
20:46
they can tell you what they did when they had
20:49
struggles. So it's really, really important.
20:51
And it's easy to find, if you join a community,
20:53
now you have that connection to find a mentor
20:56
and talk and share. So regarding cloud community.
21:00
Cloud Whistler. Yeah. Can you tell me a little,
21:02
can you tell me a little bit about Cloud Whistler
21:04
and what, yeah. Yeah. It was founded by Ali Sohail.
21:09
His idea was just what I was talking about to
21:12
support people, not only junior engineers, but
21:15
people getting into tech and people changing
21:17
careers because people say they're tired. They
21:19
want to get out and do something else or upskilling.
21:22
You know, they've been doing the same thing on
21:24
-prem for years. They want to get into the cloud.
21:26
So he founded it and he's instrumental and he's
21:30
a driving force in there. He's really, he's great.
21:33
Huge support, training, mentoring. And people
21:38
where you are, if you're struggling with certain
21:40
things, people are struggling along with you.
21:43
So it's a good community. And the training that
21:47
he's advertising comes from Cloud Whistling.
21:49
So you would get the course, join the community,
21:52
and then you would get the support. So if you
21:54
look at Ali Sol's latest posts, he's advertising
21:58
the RACSA and RAC, RAC Ansible training. And
22:02
so if you go to his LinkedIn profile. The latest
22:06
post talks about that, the training and joining
22:09
a community. Very cool. So where can people join
22:12
this community? If you go on Ali's LinkedIn profile,
22:16
actually, you can reach out to him. But I believe
22:21
if you go to his post, there's a link there.
22:23
And if not, you can reach out to him directly
22:26
and he'll reply. Ali Sohail on LinkedIn. His
22:29
last name is S -O -H -A -I -L. I'll go ahead
22:33
and leave. In the show notes, I'll leave links
22:36
to his profile and the community itself. All
22:39
right. Anything else that we didn't talk about
22:41
that you wanted to talk about? I think the thing
22:44
about the learning is. What we just say about
22:48
learning is focus on one thing at a time. Don't
22:51
try to do too many things at a time because then
22:53
you won't be focused. You need to focus on one
22:56
thing at a time. Understand the business problem
22:59
that you're trying to solve. Like, why are you
23:01
learning these tools? You're not learning it
23:03
just for the sake of learning. Yeah. So having
23:07
focus is really important. Having focus. And
23:09
you're not going to know everything. You can't,
23:12
you know, there are all these tools out there.
23:14
Just focus on what you like. focus on what's
23:17
important and the business problems that are
23:19
solved i see in cloud security microservices
23:23
those are the those are the problems and that's
23:25
why these tools tools are there and what what
23:27
we believe in teaching is those videos are very
23:31
our videos are short so i did a devops video
23:33
course and the videos are like 10 minutes five
23:36
minutes you know no longer than 15 minutes because
23:39
you You learn in short, short sections. So you
23:42
learn 10 minutes video, then you take a break.
23:45
So they're all short as opposed to you sitting
23:47
for an hour for an entire video for an hour.
23:50
So that really helps. And also regarding studying,
23:55
there's a philosophy behind studying. Studying
23:57
for three hours nonstop is not effective. Studying
24:00
for 20 minutes, taking a break. at a time is
24:03
effective. And I actually have a tool based on
24:08
the Pomodoro system where you study for 20 minutes,
24:10
take a break, then come back. Because otherwise
24:13
I'd fall into that trap too. You just keep studying,
24:16
taking a break. You can also take a day, let's
24:20
say you're burned out studying, don't study the
24:23
next day. You don't have to study every day.
24:26
You can take a break, let your brain learn it
24:29
and then come back to it. And then you don't
24:31
want to get burned out. That's for sure. Don't
24:32
want to get burned out. Sleep is crucial. I know
24:35
people disregard it, but when you get, when you're
24:38
well rested, you can, you think, you think better.
24:41
I think this in the morning, in the morning,
24:43
I can climb Mount Everest in the morning. In
24:47
the evening, I feel good. So yeah, it's yeah.
24:50
So it's important to pace yourself studying.
24:54
Don't study. Try to cram everything in. Get,
24:59
you know, rest, exercise, all that does play
25:01
a part in there. Because what I see in the tech
25:04
industry, they focus on study, study, study,
25:06
study. Well, how about exercise? How about sleep?
25:09
How about taking a break? How about being balanced?
25:12
When you're not balanced, you can't just focus
25:14
on technology only. You have to be balanced.
25:18
And if you're not, you're not going to learn
25:20
as well. And you're going to burn out. Yeah,
25:22
your attention span can only... You only have
25:26
attention span for so long. And then eventually,
25:28
yeah, you're just not, it's not, even if you
25:30
are studying for three hours, it's not an effective
25:32
three hours of studying either. It's not. And
25:35
that's why they invented that Pomodoro system
25:37
because they did study saying, okay, 25, 30 minutes,
25:41
stop, take a break, then go back. Yeah. Yeah.
25:44
And take the time to take care of your health,
25:46
take care of your, enjoy hobbies outside of tech
25:50
too. So you can, yeah, turn your brain off. Help
25:54
recharge and not get burned out. And the other
25:56
thing is studying that people don't realize.
25:58
Your brain is fatigued, but you don't know it.
26:00
So three hours you've been studying, studying,
26:03
studying. You're wondering why you can't remember
26:04
anymore because you've been studying for three
26:06
hours without stopping. So we talk about that
26:10
when we're mentoring about those kind of things,
26:13
about doing it all at once. Yeah, I think I pretty
26:20
much said it all. Basically learning the basics
26:22
of technology. You can't learn it all. Understanding
26:24
business problems. That's the other thing. Going
26:26
on an interview, I just thought of it. Talking
26:29
about your tools. I don't talk about the tools.
26:32
I talk, I understand about this is a business
26:34
problem you're trying to solve. And here's what
26:36
I understand about this tool. And what do you
26:39
do? What does your company do to solve this problem?
26:43
So they understand you're thinking about the
26:45
big picture, not just focusing on a tool. That's
26:48
another thing, understanding. And then they see,
26:51
oh, you see the big picture. So being a mentor,
26:54
so wrapping up, and I just wanted to ask one
26:56
more question. Being a mentor in this space,
26:58
you have visibility to both the juniors and the
27:01
seniors and the people that have been in it for
27:03
a short period of time, been in it for a long
27:04
period of time. What's one thing you wish more
27:06
seniors would do for juniors? Well, that's a
27:09
good one. You mean on the job or just in general?
27:13
In general, yeah. in general or on the job if
27:16
that's a if that's an easier question well on
27:18
the job i have something to say about on the
27:20
job a lot of times you know there's a instance
27:23
where it's a fast -paced company they throw you
27:26
in there and then the seniors are all busy and
27:29
you didn't really get the good best onboarding
27:31
and you you get stuck and there's nobody around
27:34
so good onboarding for me is okay good onboarding
27:37
you have a mentor that you can reach out to if
27:41
you get struggle and i think that that's huge
27:44
Just having that lifeline to be able to reach
27:47
out. Sometimes you get dropped in, you sink or
27:50
swim. And the thing is, what's going on is big
27:54
companies have the time and the resources to
27:56
train you, to give great onboarding. These small
28:00
startups and small and mid -sized companies,
28:02
well, they might not have that. Everybody's busy.
28:05
It's good to have a good mentor. Actually, let
28:09
me think about that question. Well, with me as
28:11
a mentor, I'm just always available. I mean,
28:14
no matter how busy I am, I'm always available.
28:16
I always find time. And I understand them because
28:19
I've been there. So just being available and
28:23
listening. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah.
28:27
I mean, it seems simple, but it also isn't done
28:30
enough. Yeah. What's happened is everybody's
28:33
busy. My mentoring started when, because I was
28:37
thrown in Sing or Swim. Actually, they threw
28:40
me in and I swam. But it wasn't easy. It wasn't
28:44
easy, but I did it. And then after I got through
28:46
it, I said, you know what? Everybody doesn't
28:48
have to go through that. So I actually volunteered
28:51
myself to be a mentor for onboarding techs at
28:55
my company. So they can reach out to me at any
28:58
time. And they said I made their life so much
29:01
easier because I went through it. So I understood.
29:06
No, it's great to be in that position where you
29:08
can help others. Yeah. Not go through the same
29:11
experience that unfortunately you had to go through.
29:13
I got through it. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, thank
29:17
you Yvonne for being here. I really appreciate
29:19
it. I'll keep, I will put show notes in the show
29:21
notes. I'll put links for, for Ollie's profile.
29:26
And they can reach out to him directly. And then
29:29
he had his latest post talks about the training
29:31
that the upcoming training that we're having.
29:34
Cool. So I will put show notes down for Cloud
29:36
Whistler Community Tech with Engineers, Ali's
29:38
profile, your profile. Yep. Really appreciate
29:41
it. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Thanks for
29:43
inviting me. It was fun. All right, that's my
29:46
conversation with Yvonne Young. My biggest takeaway
29:48
from this one is the path into cloud or DevOps
29:51
does not need to be flashy. It needs to be focused.
29:55
Pick a direction. Learn the fundamentals. Practice
29:58
consistently. Understand the business problem
30:01
behind the tool. And do not confuse collecting
30:04
buzzwords with actually being job ready. I also
30:08
really liked her point that good mentorship can
30:11
save people a ton of wasted time. A lot of juniors
30:14
do not need more noise. They need better guidance,
30:17
better onboarding, and someone who is actually
30:20
available when they get stuck. If you enjoyed
30:22
this episode, follow Ship It Weekly wherever
30:25
you listen to podcasts. If you want the show
30:27
notes, links to Yvonne, Cloud Whistler, and the
30:30
resources we talked about, head over to shipitweekly
30:33
.fm or tellerstech .com. Thanks for listening
30:36
and I'll see you later this week.